INKOVEMA Podcast „Well through time“
#196 – Are mediators allowed to take a stand and position themselves in social and international conflicts?
Iin conversation with Christian Bähner and Elke Schwertfeger
Elke Schwertfeger – graduate psychologist, business mediator BM and trainer BMWA and BM; managing partner of Two view in Freiburg.
Christian Bähner – qualified educationalist, business mediator BMWA and BM, organisational consultant and trainer BMWA and BM; managing partner of Zweisicht.
Well through time.
The podcast about mediation, conflict coaching and organisational consulting.
Contents
In this episode of the „Gut durch die Zeit“ podcast, we look at a particularly sensitive topic: the role of mediators in the face of political disagreements and social conflicts. Together with experienced mediation colleagues Elke Schwertfeger and Christian Bähner from Zweisicht, I shed light on the challenges facing mediators in an increasingly polarised political climate.
We discuss how political posturing and political disputes can enter into mediation practice and what demands this places on the neutrality and attitude of mediators. Elke and Christian, who both look back on over two decades of experience in mediation training, will contribute valuable insights into the balancing act between personal conviction and professional neutrality to the discussion.
A central point of our conversation centres around the question of whether mediators should be fundamentally politically neutral or whether it is necessary to take a clear stance. We explore how current social developments, particularly in the wake of recent political trends in Germany, can create a paradigm shift for mediators. We find that many mediators also have personal and emotional reactions to social events that were not addressed in their training.
We also address the psychological aspects of conflicts in the world of work and in society. Christian and Elke explain how important it is to maintain a people-centred attitude while respecting one's own professional mandate. They also discuss the responsibility that mediators bear within conflicts and the need to actively recognise that not every conflict can be mediated if there are significant power imbalances.
In the rest of the episode, we reflect on the uncertainties and challenges in today's VUCA world (volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity), which encourage mediators to constantly scrutinise their own positioning. We will analyse what place mediation can take in our current social reality and discuss the question of whether we perhaps only really recognise the value of mediation and dialogue in turbulent times.
After an in-depth and insightful discussion, we finally come to the conclusion that the challenges facing mediators do not allow for simple answers. Nevertheless, the conviction remains that, especially in difficult times, the need for dialogue and mediation can be strengthened in order to find ways to resolve conflicts.
Transcription of the entire conversation
[0:00]Cordially welcome to the Podcast Good through the Time, the Podcast round at Mediation,
[0:08]
Welcome to the podcast
[0:04]Conflict coaching and Organisational consulting, a Podcast from INKOVEMA. I am Sascha Weigel and welcome you to one new Consequence. And the today Consequence has a special Topic. Today goes it at Politics, political Localisation, political Dispute, social Conflicts and which Role there Mediators play, play can, play should, play may and what the Whole with the Requirements on Mediators to do has. And at itself here in the Podcast this but sometimes possibly delicate Topic to approach, have I me two whole competent Mediation colleagues invited, the already long Mediators train. In a way Mediators the first Hour probably almost are and therefore none blank Leaf. And nevertheless wants I Elke Sword sweep and Christian Bähner itself also short introduce leave. Cordially welcome first here in the Podcast, her both. Hello.
[1:15]Hello, many Thanks to for the Invitation. We look forward to us very and are tense to this Topic with you in the Exchange to come. Us drives the the last two years whole especially acute um. And we have us many Thoughts internal made, like we so that Bypass and are tense, sometimes also astonished, about the Exchange also with Colleagues and Colleagues, like different also this Topic seen and rated becomes.
[1:45]Yes, Elke, there Go we almost centre pure, but we give Christian still short the Opportunity, at least Hello to say and then… To watch.
[1:54]Yes, hello Sascha, Thank you for the Invitation. I happy me also. Many Greetings from Fribourg to Leipzig and yes, beautiful, that we today the Opportunity have, about the important Topic to speak. We are Yes already always again in addition in the past months in the Exchange been and today See we us here in the Box.
[2:13]Exactly, the Topic has itself also with us so a little accumulated. I have you Yes so to speak there addressed, even not times, because her also Mediators trains and therefore one whole good Overview and Insight in the Scene have and also about the Development, because her it already since years, almost Decades already, or ne, her makes already since decades, I believe her have now 20-year anniversary or 25th anniversary. Exactly.
[2:39]So Two-view gives it since 2003. We itself are already a pair years longer as Creatures active. And from therefore, we form now already since 21 years Colleagues and Colleagues from.
[2:51]Yes, and therefore is it from the Wait here already times a good Point been, but it was also whole concrete one Explanation, one Declaration, a Post, the but more detailed was, where her the Topic truncated have, confronting also named have and said have, in favour stand we and there come we then also equal on it to speak, because the has me moved then to say, the are now exactly the Correct, the I in favour address, at the in the Podcast here a little to deepen. But first perhaps again so in, two Words to yourselves. Many Mediators become you know, but perhaps gives it also the one or other Consultant now so on Audience, the now not so in the Mediator scene itself knows his way around. Who are you? What makes you? Yours are in Fribourg on each Case, the have her already said. And Two view united you as Training institute. perhaps Elke short to you what makes you from like are you to the Mediation come and have it there so long endured.
[3:56]In fact have Christian and I already since Start from Two-view, so about 20 years, one common Path and have us about the Mediation training got to know. And then in the work context, we were both with Management consultancies determined, Conflicts need one other Shape the Editing, like we it got to know have. And so came ours Passion to the Mediation. And it was quite fast clear, that we there our own Thing from make and so have we 20 founded.
[4:27]From the Training group so to speak.
[4:30]Exactly, we were a Intervision team.
[4:34]With Whom was the back then?
[4:36]With one Primary rock the Mediators, the Christopher Besemer, have we ours Education made. So to speak from the Basics on the notice and then later also co-developed. And we have us Yes from the Themes specialised, but not from the Industry. And the is to like before one large Joy, in most different Working environments with always again resembling People in the Themes on the road be to may.
[5:06]Yes, Thank you. Elke, Christian.
[5:10]And I supplement times, the Christopher Besemer, the comes Yes from the Peace movement and there was Yes so one whole important Root then also
[5:18]For the Mediation.
[5:19]From the then also the Federal Association Mediation then originated is. And we have then rather on this Level from Society and Neighbourhood and Community Mediation learnt and viewed and have then but due to our Fields of work noted, there fits not everything and there gives it Questions, the Important are and with those we us deal with must. And so came then also the Impulse to say, we develop the now for us more in Direction Organisational and Business mediation. Back then gave it none, hardly one Provider. We were none known at least and are with many other Colleagues, Colleagues in the Federal Association then on the Path gone and have said, Human, what needs it now, that the also in the Field the Labour and Business mediation transferable is. And have us then with Hierarchy, with Power and similar Aspects analysed and had then also the Happiness the early Hour, that we from Beginning on Clientele from Middle class and larger The company had.
[6:27]Since then also Mediators train and accompany were able to, until towards to conflict management systems, the we then co-initiated and partly also with introduced have and had from therefore also always the Insight, as external Mediators Mediation in The company to offer, but also, like runs it in-house and like utilise the larger Company, the itself there Own start-up centres and Mediator pools set up.
[6:55]Yes, the find I Yes one interesting Development. 2001, 2002, the was Yes also the Time, as Jörg Cracks be first Business Mediation Book in first edition brought out, but even from one whole other Direction coming.
[7:09]Correct.
[7:10]The was probably not in the Training group from Christopher Besemer to find.
[7:15]Was he not.
[7:15]That there exactly two completely various Directions there itself developed have. Exactly.
[7:20]And the Most Impulses came Yes then still like this, mine I me to remember, then B2B conflicts and strong Harvard Treatment-orientated to work. And we have then but already whole early also in us counselling Activities and in the Trainings, the we then also already offered have, determined, the Most Conflicts in The company gives it within the company. And the has very much with humanising Themes and Questions to do. And there needs it rather so these relationship clarifying Mediation approaches. Since have we us then specialised and ours Education also on it constructed.
[8:02]Many things was Yes also very strong then still from the legal Corner characterised. And we come even both rather about the psychological Corner. And therefore were the humanising Themes for us the Topics, the we especially focussed have and the also in ours conflicts, the we processed have, in the Foreground stood and even not so very Negotiation topics or legal Topics.
[8:25]Yes, and this Point with Christopher Besemer and the strong so to speak Strand, the to the BM led, from the Peace movement out or from the peace mediation Labour out, also Tilman Butcher, the find I on mine interesting Point now also for the today Topic, because the natural also in Speech stands simple and, Yes, what the Development so to speak with the russian Full attack 22 then also this Idea adds, the is still open, but belongs to with discussed. Probably is it today a Part of which. We have then probably several Entry levels. Vani, perhaps can her still in, two Things from the Time say, what so peace mediation then so the Atmosphere was, like one Mediation then in Commercial enterprise brought has, when one from so one rather social Viewing direction to the Conflict management comes.
[9:31]I believe, where the Proximity always was and the Connectedness, is actually in the Question the Attitude. People to like, one constructive Path to go, the was always ours Conviction, human also to act, also in conflicts, is also in hard Commercial enterprises possible. And the was, as we started have, almost like a Paradigm shift. Whole many were the Conviction, one must itself either professional, speak also a Piece cold, profit orientated behaviour or human. And then was the rather so the Social track and the Peace movement. And we were always thereof convinced, the goes together. When we human Appreciative fair act, are we economic more profitable. And the was always our Ambition, the also in the The company to transport. And from therefore have we, believe me, so the Roots not leave and at the same time very pragmatic on it looked, like create we that, these Themes also in Commercial enterprise to transport. And the not as Contradiction to realise, but the with to integrate and together.
[10:43]Yes.
[10:45]So a peaceful, one can say also a friendly or fair Together, the was Yes also always one Idea for the world of work. The was a Link, the for us good Fitted has. And when I me so remember back, in Job adverts stood actually already always inside, Strong in communication and capable of conflict and similar. It should each and each be. Whole honest, the Most knew even not so very before 20, 25 years, like the at all goes and like one the make can. And me went the at least also like this, that I the to Home even not learnt have and that I there even none Role model, none Model had. And then, the was so mine Motivation then also, me on the Path to make and me with the Themes so intensive to employ. And then natural exciting determine, in The company gives it also none Idea, like the better run can. And it gives rather so one Cemetery. Man is quiet and holds the Feet still and one speaks not above. Cold Conflicts, until it at some point to the large Scandal with one large destroying Effect comes. And then is it in the Principle often also already to late been. And there so these Idea bring in, the goes also different and there can we earlier above speak and Find also Paths through this Conflict through,
[12:09]So that in the best Case the Relationship after still stronger is or again trusting becomes. The was attractive. And beautiful is Yes also, that we nowadays experience, that Mediation in the The company arrived is. May Certainly still much better known become, but then knew nobody, what is Mediation. The was as Term still even not defined and introduced. And today can one at least say, in the Most Company, the have already times thereof belongs to and also already times tried out.
[12:44]Yes, the Conflicts may now already also direct named and approached become. And me seems also, that it good connectable was, because the Idea so to speak the Improving communication and of the self-growth, the was Yes already longer also in the Range from Group dynamics, Organisational development, Coaching, what everything already good also in The company whirled up was, But when also still not so in the Senses from we may Conflicts also direct name and approach, there has Certainly Mediation one real Added value brought, also there now not still a second I-message communication training to set up or even but times somehow Team development to make, where it simple really at Clarification work goes.
[13:32]
Political neutrality of the mediators
[13:32]Okay, the is like this, can I the whole good categorise again, so yours Beginnings there and even also with this, I says times, peace activists Roots also now this Post on LinkedIn 2024 in the february again one longer Bridge beat or also one wider, where her asked have, are we as Mediators to political Neutrality obliged? Because stop the Neutrality the Base position is in the Conflict mediation. What was because for you the Occasion to say, the must we thematise? What has itself there for you Changed or what have her observed, that the necessary was? And then come I also with pleasure again with the occasions, the from me from to the Topic lead.
[14:26]I white even not, Sascha, whether itself there really what changed has, because I would already always say, that we one people-orientated Posture had, the itself also in the social or political Discourse pronounced has and the we there in the Frame also represent have. From therefore, probably has itself internal even not so much changed, but in the Autumn 23 gave it then again with us internal so one intensive Discussion, the actually rather so in these Direction comes, must we clearer become, must we louder be, must we us there also more engage and there was the Trigger once so this View.
[15:11]And we means Mediators? We means Mediators now?
[15:16]We Mediators from Two-view. We have the in our Two-view community from Fixed and Free Mediators with each other discussed with this Idea, Human, like goes it you because straight with the Shift to the right in Germany? How goes it you with this Outlook on the State elections 2024 in Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt and Brandenburg? How goes it you then, as then these Remigration event in Potsdam was? And what means it for us and must we there not us also clearer position? And the was so the Point, where we then said have, yes, we are there personally affected of which. The solves in us one whole large Care and Pain from. And so the Question from, I would like in addition mine Voice raise and the hinders me not on it, at the same time Mediator to be. and this Discuss. We have it in the
[16:17]Post Yes as Edge show also labelled. So clearer become, was not so the Idea.
[16:25]Yes, I can me the respectively also, And what I so to speak experienced have and such Questions me also provided, categorise, I am political disputable, I make the also on LinkedIn clearly, take to political Themes Position. And it is not rare, that me the Argument beats against us, what are because you for a Mediator? You are Yes even not neutral. And Why beat you you here on one Page? So whether you now the really warlike Debate take at the russian War of aggression on the Ukraine and there the Themes Arms delivery etc. And the has me fast surprised. So I can there political good above discuss and I likes also Discussion. But alone, that I discuss and Counterarguments find and not now only one Dialogue and School district build up wants in LinkedIn to the Topic, becomes frequently marked. And not only from political Discussants, but also from mediatorial Colleagues, that the not mediative is and that the but somehow then none, so what are because you for one, is so one Connotation there. Since have I noted, the must clarified be and the must also, believe me, one Discussion under Mediators be.
[17:54]So for us was always whole important, that we from ours Trainees expect, that them in one certain Posture grow into it. The is a Claim in the Education and the makes already clearly, for us is Mediation not a Method kit, but actually one Posture question. And therefore was us it also important, that we authentic, personally to Things on Position refer. Our Posture becomes about it visible. And there would like I not Neutral be and understand I also the Order as Mediator not like this. And this Being authentic, Posture show, becomes from our Experience rather honoured. So we listen very frequently, we can you good estimate, we know, with Whom we it to do have. And the is a more genuine Contact. And therefore is for us these Neutrality often rather what Attached, what Façade, where someone not in Contact us goes.
[18:57]Yes, also retreating, exactly. Who really one from the Contact us goes, Why also always, but I find nevertheless so to speak interesting, because we on one certain Level Unity, believe me, have and we the Conceptual completely different categorise.
[19:20]I hats me before this husbandry concept, that so to speak Mediators in the Education in one Posture grow into it. The would I like this, believe me, not declare. I white now not, whether mine Training candidates say would, the feels itself but so on and the make we also and there need you the also not so name. The believe I not. Posture show, find me, in turn is rather a political Topic, where I also say, yes, there applies it really also Behaviour then also on Day to lay. But Conceptual go I rather so to speak thereof from to say, Neutrality is one professional Service, the I in one Mediator contract ready am to give. The check I before, whether the in the Case fits, whether I the perform can and like this, whether the Consideration right. And then is Neutrality for me one contractual agreed Performance. The make I professional. And when I then ready am with the Order, then is it also again good. I have not so to speak the conceptual Idea, that I something from me out in the Mediation bring, what I in the Education so to speak in me to the Grow brought have. So when one so with inner Posture now as Concept approach. And the find I one interesting Point, because we, believe me, to the same Goal control, but one different Concept thereby have. And believe me, it has already also still Differences. Christian, I believe, you have.
[20:49]Perhaps is Yes also the Word Posture different occupied on the Position. I would now the Neutrality on the Place also rather as Principle the Mediation See and less as the Attitude, but the Posture or perhaps other Wording. The Values, the we mediate, is, like Go we with People around? So this co-operative Thinking, these Orientation on Feelings and a Interest in on the Emotionality, the State of mind of the Other and also of the self-expression. How goes it me so on this accepting, benevolent, caring Image of man, would I now times say, the we then also in Values express. The is us a Concerns, that the even not only one Method is, where I now so to speak times click on and say, now am I Mediator and now interest I me for you and otherwise are me People total no matter and I behaviour me like the Axe in the Forest. Yes, the is
[21:44]Yes one wide Span from are me no matter and I behaviour me like the Axle in the Forest.
[21:50]Yes, yes, clear. So I make it times extra now a little black and white, at to show, what I so that mine. And perhaps goes it on one very early Experience also back, where we times experienced have, that we one Conflict with one other Mediator had, the then with this Wish, the itself then not co-operative or not dialogical behaviour has and then also the Wish to one Mediation said has, I have none Trestle on Mediation.
[22:20]Hey, you, I would me look forward to, when you now yours Smartphone in the Hand take and one Star rating on yours Podcast catcher leaves behind, like you this Podcast pleases. Because the Helps us here as Podcast maker, that this Podcast also found becomes from Colleagues and other Podcast listeners, the the Podcast still not know. So, and now goes it more with the Podcast.
[22:48]And the is for me or for us so one values Question, like Go we because ultimately with the Instruments, the we itself mediate, at and is the now only a Method box, where I each Paint search, what fits and whereupon have I in principle Fancy it? The make we under other natural nevertheless also, but I would now to the Example not per se always pick out, would like I favourably, friendly, fair in Conflicts me behaviour, but the is for me a Value, or we say now, have now even Posture in addition said, like as Image of man or as more fundamental Value even ours In my opinion also from inside out lived become wants.
[23:34]Yes, and I would it also even not so whole Large moral grasp want, but actually rather like this, when I me the Mediation commit, then commit I me in one constructive Path. Yes, so the is for me rather very coarse. And this constructive Behaviour or the Posture behind it, the is for me actually the Prerequisite. Then gives it whole many individual Gradations, individual Values. But that I me one constructive Value commit, the is actually for me so the Basis. And also the is even not naturally, when someone in one Mediation training comes. We know whole often still this, then behaviour I me in the Private so and in the professional Context am I then Mediator. The