INKOVEMA Podcast „Well through time“

#242 GddZ

Mediation in schools

How does mediation actually come about in the school context?

In conversation with Kerstin Lück

Mediator and trainer for conflict management, studied German language and literature, psychology and religious studies. She has been working as a mediator since 1995, has been self-employed since 2005 and has also been training other people in mediation (especially for the school context) since 2005.

Small series: Fields of mediation

School mediation. Handout by Kerstin Lück.

Contents

Chapter:

0:05 – Welcome to the podcast
5:58 – Challenges in school mediation
10:05 – Lines of conflict between parents and teachers
13:43 – Need for mediation in adult conflicts
17:20 – Bullying and its challenges
19:34 – Prejudices between parents and teachers
22:48 – Positive experiences in mediation
28:30 – Children's conflicts and their solutions
33:16 – The peace carpet as conflict resolution
40:49 – Intercultural conflicts in schools
45:27 – School conflicts and their causes
47:08 – Outlook for future initiatives

detailed summary

This episode of the podcast "Gut durch die Zeit" focuses on the challenges and opportunities of mediation in a school context. As host, Sascha Weigel talks to experienced mediator Kerstin Lück, who has over 30 years of experience in mediation. The discussion will shed light on the often conflict-ridden school environment, in which the relationship between teachers, parents and pupils plays a central role. Kerstin not only contributes her practical experience, but also her findings from research and publications on this topic.

Kerstin explains how school mediation differs from other areas and describes the specific lines of conflict that are prevalent in schools. She emphasises that conflicts often take place behind the scenes, be it tensions between parents and teachers or internal differences between colleagues. A central concern for her is that schools implement serious mechanisms for conflict resolution that are not only focussed on the pupils, but also reflect the needs of the adults in the school.

One particular aspect that the two discuss is the Role of parents in the conflict. Kerstin discusses the stress factors that affect parents and teachers in their dialogue and sheds light on how prejudices and misunderstandings make communication more difficult. At the same time, she recognises the need for schools to give parents more insight into everyday school life and involve them more in decision-making processes. These challenges are exacerbated when intercultural aspects come into play, as the diversity of the student body often brings with it its own conflicts, which - as described by Kerstin - are not always addressed.

Kerstin emphasises that it is important to create spaces for this exchange in order to enable pupils and parents to discuss their problems openly and find solutions. The training of pupil mediators also plays a central role in creating awareness of conflict resolution processes. One interesting tool that she presents is the "Peace carpet", which is designed to help pupils resolve their conflicts independently without having to rely on adults.

Finally, there is an outlook on how mediation could be institutionalised in schools in order to support both teachers and pupils in the long term. Kerstin is convinced that institutionalising mediation in schools would be a significant step in the right direction. The podcast thus offers a comprehensive insight into the dynamic challenges of mediation in schools and encourages reflection on new approaches.

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Complete transcription

(AI-generated)

 

[0:00]From a mediator's point of view, I see an increased need for mediation in adult conflicts.
[0:05]
Welcome to the podcast
[0:03]Need, but no access at all. Welcome to the podcast Gut durch die Zeit, the podcast about mediation, conflict coaching and organisational consulting, a podcast by InfoFib. I'm Sascha Weigel and I'd like to welcome you to a new episode. And today's episode is intended to introduce a field of work for mediators and conflict counsellors that, as far as I remember, we haven't even touched on in these 240 episodes. Namely the field of conflict, and for some it may even be a battlefield, school. The school in all its diversity and because it is a very special field of work, I have invited a very special colleague who has not only gained experience in this field of work, but has also published experience and, so to speak, also the area of what other counsellors have to do.
[0:59]Team developers and mediators know this when they work in this field. Welcome to my podcast studio, Kerstin Lück. Hello Kerstin. Yes, hello Sascha, thank you for inviting me. Kerstin, if you google, which is still a tried and tested method of familiarising yourself with a field of work even in times of AI, and you look at the topic of mediation in schools, it doesn't take long to come across your name, which then doesn't go away. It comes up again and again because you are, I'd almost say, ingrained in the field. But I actually have no idea who you are and what you've done so far, either outside or inside schools. Perhaps to start with, what characterises you as a mediator and what experience, not in detail, but perhaps in an overall view with schools, do you bring to the table?
[1:54]What characterises me as a mediator? I would say that even after 30 years of mediation experience, I still have a great sense of humour in the school sector. This is not a favourite field for many of my colleagues. When we think of teacher training, for example, many complain that there are often harsh confrontations with know-it-all teachers, even in their specialised field of mediation or, as I sometimes like to say, successful communication and conflict management. And I can see how exhausting that is for teachers. I also live in a flat share and there have been many teachers in my flat share who I have also had the pleasure of getting to know privately. So for me, it's always a two-way street. I'm also a mum and have brought a daughter through school and also through the education system, which includes university, so I can also look at school from this perspective and have also been elected to certain positions, not just as a parent representative, but also to participate in certain conflict committees.
[3:05]In this respect, the field of school is really rich in conflicts and my speciality is still to go into schools with humour and a wide range of methods to see what suits the school I am working at right now. I always like to say that every school has its own culture, not just from the school management, but also from the teaching staff to the children, who then help to shape the school for as long as they are there. And that's what makes me tick. So I never tire of being involved in schools, because we can all complain for a long time about what's not there or where the deficits are, but as a mediator I'm a professional optimist and always see the opportunities that exist within the given framework and that want to be shaped. Perhaps as a mother who has brought a child through school, to me as a father whose son is four, one, the other is ten, is it still true that you can say that four, five-year-olds are out of the woods? Or would you say that when they start school, the hard work of parenting really begins? Against the background of the emotions that school brings with it, if you just look at the social discussion about school.
[4:24]Above all, as I remember it, the process of cutting the cord into a world that parents can no longer control begins, even if this tends not to be the case beforehand because the children are in daycare centres. It's often even more so at school.
[4:38]Many schools have this sign here saying that parents can let go of their children and let them enter the school gates. They're allowed to stay outside, that's always nicely worded. And that's the first offence for many parents and it took me a year to get used to it. And even later on at secondary school, there were teachers who invited parents, but then somehow it didn't materialise or they just wanted to bake the parents' cake. So the presence of parents and their involvement, even well-intentioned involvement, is often very, very limited. And I really don't find that easy. Leaving children in an institution where it's not transparent, where you can't really see through the committee work via parent representatives and so on, what's actually possible and what's not. I still wish things were different, but I have used my room for manoeuvre as far as I could and learned to deal with it and to trust my daughter to cope with it. We are, so to speak, right in the middle of the challenges, the beginnings perhaps of conflict situations, that this can have very different, not just cultures per school, i.e. school buildings.
[5:58]
Challenges in school mediation
[5:58]But that a variety of influencing factors also play a role, which are not even within the school, but which may also be left out. Parents are certainly one of them. Who do you have to reckon with when working with conflicts in schools? Which people, which groups of people? We are already entering a field that is incredibly diverse. So if we start with the parents, then this is of course a main line of conflict between parents and teachers. Conflicts between parents and children also play a role in school. Above all, when parents are separated, which in my experience happens more and more frequently in the first two or three classes at school, or it is simply standard practice for parents to separate during primary school, and then these conflicts also play a role, of course they also put a strain on the children and are measured by the school above all in terms of performance. That's a line of conflict that's a bit underground. So it lies beneath many conflicts that schools have with children and that schools also have with parents. That's one of the issues.
[7:04]What you can also be prepared for is that there are educational professionals working at schools who themselves have a lot of conflicts with each other. Sometimes even more among themselves than with the pupils. For example, when we think of primary schools, of the educators who work at all-day schools, for example, who are very networked, very rhythmic, that's the technical term for work, and of course have a different social status. An educator, even if she has been to a university of applied sciences, still earns less and is less respected than teachers. If we think of school social workers, they are also often in the minority and are responsible for many pupils on their own, and they are also alone in their colleagues and often have a different employer. So there are a lot of lines of conflict, for example. And then, of course, schools also have the task of ensuring peaceful behaviour according to the school laws of the various federal states. I would say that this is taken very, very seriously in different ways. Some schools do a great deal in this respect, perhaps also have the need to enforce violence prevention and this often includes mediation in the form of pupil mediators. And mediators. But some schools say, oh, it's a cross-sectional task for us and everyone somehow pays a bit of attention to it. And it's only when something really bad happens that the questions and the need are great and then the requests are very ad hoc.
[8:27]For example at Konflikthaus, an association with many mediators from many different areas of society, where I have been on the board since 2007, co-founded it and where we do a lot of conflict work in schools, different formats. Training school mediators is part of this. And if a school wants to do this and does it, then it's also something that has a big impact on the overall school culture on the subject of disputes and conflict and also has an effect on violence prevention, of course.
[8:59]In other words, the school as an organisation is responsible for implementing this peacefulness with various measures. And then that would also be something where mediation comes about, because someone has included in the school constitution, in the agreement, in the event of disputes, in the event of ambiguities, such a procedure is chosen. Or how does it come about that different professional groups and also non-school members, for example parents or perhaps others, food suppliers or similar, can come to mediation or request it? So is that typical at all or is there...?
[9:42]When we talk about school mediation, ultimately only very selected areas of conflict that make mediation possible. Yes, that's a good question, because we actually have a lot of conflicts from an external perspective and also from an internal school perspective, i.e. if I'm a teacher or headteacher,
[10:05]
Lines of conflict between parents and teachers
[10:04]is localised with the pupils. And what I have just said, that the staff also have many, many more conflicts internally, is only made possible by an external view and only when things have escalated completely, i.e. for colleagues, the new escalation levels, i.e. when we are already in the 7 and 8 range, then school pedagogical staff also get help from outside, or in Berlin, for example, they are first referred to the so-called Sibuts, the counselling and support centre, where school psychology and special education are located. And mediation is to be requested there for so-called adult conflicts.
[10:41]The focus is much more on conflicts between children, where either pupil mediators are needed for minor conflicts or a model that exists in all federal states, the so-called Senior Partners in School. These are volunteer senior citizens who offer mediation at schools once a week, but only for conflicts between pupils. I also train them. In this respect, I'm always very close, also from this perspective as a trainer, to what kind of conflicts are mainstream in schools, let's say, among the children. And what the senior citizens are being asked to deal with and what they are being asked to deal with, what else they are being asked to deal with that they don't have a mandate for, you could say. If I emphasise or perhaps exaggerate this, it means that working as a mediator in schools tends to result in this pedagogical view of the younger children and the pedagogical demands that go hand in hand with this.
[11:44]The hot escalated ones, the conflicts where you would say, well, it wouldn't be bad if we worked on them, because then we could start again in a completely different way. It's not so easy to get them into mediation unless they've escalated to such an extent that even... People who have been in the loop for a long time say that something needs to be done now? That's one way of putting it. It's also much nicer for the pupils - and that would be ideal - if they went to mediation with a teacher or if they realised that the teachers also mediate with each other, because they hear about the disputes, When a so-called double-ranked teacher is teaching together with a parent and they argue because the parent doesn't do what the teacher wants and doesn't simply carry out their own pedagogical concept, then they realise that they are arguing and that they are perhaps no longer talking to each other, which has already happened. In this respect, it would be nice if the adults could also visibly use this type of conflict resolution for the pupils. But that's rarely the case and perhaps it's also fair to say at this point that I wrote a handout for the Berlin Senate on school mediation, where I also lament this.
[13:04]This can be found in the free download under the title Handreichung Schulmediation. Perhaps you can also link to it below in the podcast. Because there I make it very clear that in Berlin and Brandenburg at least, Hamburg is a big exception, adult conflicts are not dealt with so easily. So a headteacher has to say, that's enough about you two, now go to the SIBUZ. And then there's also the big question of whether the SIBUZ has the capacity or trained mediators for this. That's not necessarily the rule. And so from a mediator's point of view, we are now dealing with adult conflicts
[13:43]
Need for mediation in adult conflicts
[13:41]I see an increased need, but no access at all. They must have heard about me or about Konflikthaus, some schools in Berlin also refer people to me, but then they have to set up a budget and it really hurts the head teacher when they say, "Oh, now I have to spend money on this too, there are no budgets at district or school board level that are simply available. I mean, that's ultimately my prejudice now, because I'm relatively rarely involved in schools. But when I have read and heard about school mediation, it has often had this, shall I say, character of extended lessons.
[14:17]That children and pupils could now learn how to deal with conflicts practically on the basis of conflicts. I have to ask, I don't understand that in the context of social learning or where do you think pupils learn that? If, for example, training was offered, student mediators, so if such programmes where student mediators, so these were often cases where I, let's say, heard the word school mediation and very rarely, but that's what surprises me now, so to speak, I'm not surprised by the very hot and intense conflicts within the teaching staff or in the parents' councils, parents' speeches, which then pop up and are discussed again and again when the parents are back together with their friends and then they have to go to the parents' evening again. So they're not addressed at all or school mediators rarely talk about it because they don't actually have it in school mediation.
[15:19]Exactly, that doesn't happen there. In order to understand this better, I wanted to accompany a friend in a conflict with a teacher about his son, who was allegedly having a romp with Karin. A parent, exactly. And I didn't go along as a mediator, so to speak, but as a supporter. And that's where I made a crass experience that I think would go a bit too far here to explain. But my experience was that the school, in this case a grammar school in Berlin, didn't have a good conflict management system for de-escalating cases. They more or less said that I wasn't allowed to say anything. I was only allowed to accompany them quietly. I felt like I was in the last century. Can you imagine if, as a mediator, someone told you that you could be there, but you could only shake hands and not say anything? That's something I didn't accept at all. Exactly. Just like mediation in general.
[16:12]Exactly, they never said anything. And the second thing was that they recommended relatively quickly that the father I was accompanying should bring a lawyer with him. So there's a kind of legal ray. The opposing parties said that you should get a lawyer. Yes, they said I wasn't allowed to say anything, but you can bring a lawyer. So I thought, there's just a lot missing, even in the school concept of how to deal with classic conflicts, parents don't agree with the grading of their students and that's relevant because it's just before the final exams. That can't be true. I was really shocked by that. And I think that shows me that there is still a lot missing and that there is a lot of focus on the students. And I would also like to mention one exception that schools are still unable to deal with: bullying incidents. In other words, incidents where we in the mediation scene also say that if bullying is detected, then you can no longer do mediation.
[17:20]
Bullying and its challenges
[17:15]Then it has to be victim-offender mediation or victim-offender mediation at school. But in any case, there is no more mediation.
[17:24]This field is also completely unploughed. In other words, highly escalated conflicts. I've just had another request for us to go to some school like a fire brigade, there's bullying going on and as soon as we make contact, the mother has already taken this son out of school. It's a reward for the bullies when that happens. But parents do this because they have no confidence in the schools, which are not well positioned to limit bullying. Oh, the parents of the child who is alleged to have committed bullying. The child in question.
[17:57]No, of the affected child. No, the child concerned. Next to the child, yes. So I don't like to say bullying victim, that's why we tend to talk more about those affected by bullying. And so on the one hand, there is this field of adult conflicts, which has not been dealt with much. And on the other hand, there are the children who really do feel at the mercy of their parents. A system that has no answer to this. Teachers are also committed people who have taken up a profession in which they can or want to get involved with all their motivation, or perhaps just thought that they could or that it was expected of them.
[18:41]So it's something that just goes away and is no longer there and you're administered, so to speak, and then you're just told to get a lawyer, that's all I can do now. So it's more a question of, we do school and here we are the sovereign pedagogy. As a parent, you can do this at home, but here at school it's the way we want it. What are the person's prejudices, so to speak, if they want to keep the parents away, for example, or say I'm not going to bother? Perhaps this keyword of helicopter parents and so on. How many prejudices do you have to deal with in this profession as a mediator, that teachers are labelled as demotivated, not interested, don't respond individually and parents are immediately over-committed.
[19:34]
Prejudices between parents and teachers
[19:31]Now they also want to come to school and write the homework themselves. Are these topics that then need to be exposed or addressed, or do they not come up at all?
[19:42]So I believe that these prejudices have a very strong effect and also trigger great fears on both sides. I know of young teachers starting their careers, i.e. shortly after their traineeship, when they have their first parents' evenings.
[19:59]That they are incredibly afraid of these parents' evenings. Younger teachers who haven't been in the school system for two or three years are also afraid of something, precisely because they are so committed and want to do everything right, that they are afraid of parents' evenings because there is little appreciation. Of course, that's also the culture we have in Germany, first to complain or mainly to complain and not to appreciate, not even to see the effort. On the other hand, for parents, as we talked about at the beginning, school is such a black box that you don't get the right information, that you don't understand the assessment criteria.
[20:33]Parents are often not involved either, so if they are only used to bake a cake or set up a stand to finance a school trip or something else in the parents' support association, parents are so welcome. But with all their resources, for example to give parents an insight into careers, there are some schools that also involve parents and invite them to organise such open careers days. But that tends to be the exception. So in this respect, I can confirm that prejudices prevail and that of course makes such parents' dialogue evenings very stressful. Not only because a teacher is always in the minority and if things escalate badly, a kind of inquisition takes place, I have experienced this myself and of course always tried to prevent it. Or when individual discussions take place, teachers are also confronted with the most curious ideas from parents. Of course with the pictures and the secret orders about what the child should become. So then the...
[21:34]At an ISS, an integrated secondary school, but they are supposed to become doctors because that's what the parents want, but the child is not interested at all. Or I can also report that children are sent to school mediation courses who don't want to go because their father is the mayor and from his point of view it's good for the child to learn about conflict. But that's completely wrong, he would have to go into social learning first and he's not motivated at all. So parents are also very, very difficult, especially in primary school, where everyone comes together, to act on behalf of the teachers. So yes, there are a lot of prejudices, a lot of fear on both sides and very little good strategy. Personally, in my role as a mum, the first thing I did was to moderate these parents' evenings and then try to rotate them, because it's very difficult for the teachers to act alone. Maybe we'll also take a look at a few light sides.
[22:29]What are the moments when, as a mediator, you have somehow been invited to your school mediation and you think you have suddenly seen your own prejudices corrected or simply
[22:48]
Positive experiences in mediation
[22:46]experienced something successful. What do you have to be prepared for at school, where everyone is so pedagogically charged? And I also want to call it problematic, it's always somehow about the last judgement at the last school today. And that is so crucial for the future that everyone is somehow very tense and very motivated. What nice things can you experience?
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[23:37]Yes, that's an important framework that you set there, because it's not only charged and tense, but everyone is also incredibly stressed. So the first thing I try to do is deal with this stress and create a calm place in mediation where you can take a deep breath, where you can stay in touch with your feelings and needs as a party to the conflict and I can stay in touch with them as a mediator. So that's the very first thing I try to do, as it never takes place outside of school. I always go to school, which of course would be much better if I could mediate outside of school. I think it's the absolute exception that this has been successful. I'm always in some room at school. And then to keep it free from this stress and to say, how much time do we have? Please don't leave early, switch off your mobile phone. Let's take a deep breath here and see how we can find a good path, a good solution. That's the first thing, and the first thing I'm thinking of right now is a conflict between a teacher and two parents.
[24:41]Who were also separated, who complained about the way their son was being treated. And then I quickly realised, and it was nice to see how things were resolved with the teacher, that the parents had a conflict with each other and were trying to resolve it through the school. They didn't feel properly informed and expected to get everything twice because they were living separately and the child was in the alternating model. When they realised that the teacher couldn't do that, I simply asked them, how many separated parents are there? What would that mean for the teacher if they followed the parents' wishes? All the slips of paper twice and always twice in the homework books. That simply couldn't be done, they suddenly realised. And then they turned to each other and started to talk about how they could streamline things, how they could improve communication without burdening the child, without burdening the school, with a bit of mediation from me, but then the teacher was more or less out of the picture. And then they were suddenly good at talking and then I also shortened it, because then we were in a kind of different mediation, a kind of separation mediation, keeping an eye on the child. That's a different mode.
[25:56]And then we said goodbye to each other in a very friendly and respectful manner and I wished them all the best for the talks they were planning, including with their son. It wasn't hard work now as a mediator, there are other cases, but it was very quickly understood where the problem was and where the problem actually lay, where the causes of the conflict were and how they were relieved and as usual.
[26:22]Satisfied, they all went out there. And then afterwards, which you don't always get, I received a thank-you email from the teacher saying how well it had turned out. I was really pleased about that. And I thought, yes, if a school provides this space and has also paid for it, at that moment the school management has paid for it, then so much is possible. And then so many encounters are possible and so many conversations can be resolved. Yes, and sometimes you can define the problem correctly or get to the root of it. It doesn't have to be gone yet, but there is a twist in the process.
[26:56]And something has also changed in the child's view that he can't help it if the parents argue like that. Sascha, can I share another case of children themselves arguing with each other? Because that's the other touching example, so to speak, where I'm involved in training in schools, so we offer bullying prevention training from Konflikthaus or social learning. I'm now at a primary school in a suburb, which also has a lot of social problems in Berlin, and I'm in a fourth grade.
[27:28]And then I always say something like that at the beginning to introduce myself. And I know that you have a lot of conflicts among yourselves that the older ones, the adults, don't know about. I also show your class teacher, who was present, so to speak, which we don't know about but which are really bothering you. In the event that you still have your conflicts and don't want to tell the adults about them, but want to resolve them, there is a very special opportunity here. And I have brought you the peace rug, which I invented. And you can just use it. And you can always go out in pairs and try to sort it out. I presented it once with my colleague. Then they understood how it works. And then several of them signed up for a dance card. The conflicts with each other. The teacher was really surprised at what was going on in her class. We continued the training. They kept coming back and had solved it well and were quite happy. And then two girls came and said, no, but we want to deal with the conflict in front of the class.
[28:30]
Children's conflicts and their solutions
[28:29]the whole class. And then, of course, I rolled my eyes because of confidentiality and everything and thought, what are we going to do now? And I asked them both again very carefully whether everyone was allowed to listen.
[28:41]And they said, yes, the class knows about it anyway, we're actually friends, but we haven't spoken to each other for two years. Oh dear. And then the peace carpet, which is about four metres by 78 metres, so it's quite a long way that they then walk towards each other in the mediation steps and then can and usually do reconcile in the middle, but also a reconciliation field, because the field is also there. So it had a very inviting character. And then they approached each other and actually, I would say, cleared up two or three misunderstandings. Some back-and-forth talk that hurt the best friends, hurt one of them. Then there was a tearful reconciliation in the middle. The class applauded, really applauded enthusiastically for a minute. And then every now and then, they carried on with the training and then they came to me in the next break and said it would be so nice if they were friends again. And that touched my heart because I thought, yes, and without this opportunity, it wouldn't have happened.
[29:48]And since then, of course, I have also been promoting the Peace Carpet with my company, giving the children the opportunity to get to know this carpet and then creating these spaces where they can try it out. Yes, and also for themselves, I can confirm this in a rudimentary way, but that they have many conflicts that they deal with and cause for themselves.
[30:12]And where they can't find a way out. Have no idea. Yes, where they don't know how to do it. And they don't always want to go to the adults, to the school social workers, to the nursery school teachers. They started fourth grade relatively early, but fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth in puberty. They don't want to let the adults look in. And sometimes the pupils' mediators are no longer available at secondary school. They mainly work at primary schools. Or they don't trust them to do it. So we need a lot more mediation tools where the children can work it out for themselves in a playful or serious way. And I'm glad that I thought of this, that I don't always emphasise mediation, but that these tools can also be learned. So I find both situations thought-provoking. One is that they don't want to have anyone there, i.e. no mediators, no school social workers, no teachers, or at least they didn't go beforehand, even though there had been a dispute for two years. And what is significant for our role as mediators is that this is already a high hurdle.
[31:18]But on the other hand, with the carpet, and I've never heard of this before, I don't even know it, but we'll definitely be able to link to it, so that there are fields that can be filled in. And you can do that yourself, so to speak. And at least the two girls involved wanted to do it in front of the class. So there were third parties present, but they weren't actually third parties in the sense that they were allowed to act, but they were allowed to watch in order to bear witness. And that is also something that makes mediators important in their role, that they are witnesses.
[31:53]But if they are so active that they have a lot of control, they rarely get a chance. Is this perhaps just a coincidence or is it at least worth thinking about what impression we as mediators have, which is very different for the parties involved than what we would like. We always say that we're only there to conduct the dialogue, we ask a few questions and so on, and can talk to them and so on, but it's rather rare for the whole amount of conflict that exists.
[32:25]I think it's a remarkable story that they wanted to do that in front of the class. What's your impression that they wanted to do that? Yes, I also think it's nice that you emphasise the witnessing again. And it was indeed the case that everyone was supposed to testify that they had now settled this dispute. And as a mediator, you are also familiar with these various cases of conflict where we sometimes open up this space simply because we are seriously committed to it. And then they come in and say, yes, we've already spoken on the stairs. So in my case they have to go up to the fourth floor somehow and some don't want to take the lift. And then they come in very relaxed and say that we've already agreed on the topics we want to discuss with them today and are in good spirits. That's great, of course, because then that's exactly what they want,
[33:16]
The peace carpet as conflict resolution
[33:12]I should testify again that they have come to a good agreement. But it's more likely to be friends, for example, who have fallen out or colleagues or a couple who were separated and have now found a way to talk to me.
[33:29]I would say that's more like a third of the cases where this happens. For the others, we are very, very important. And in the accompaniment of conflicts on the peace carpet, for example for the senior citizens in Berlin, they all have a peace carpet in their pocket with which they go to schools. They also say that the children also need guidance. They want to go on the Peace Carpet, they actually want to do it on their own, but then they say, but stay with it. And then the task is to do what we do in mediation, to let them finish, to say step by step, okay, you're on the field now, what are you ready for? That's just before finding a solution on the peace carpet.
[34:07]You can't make any more wishes. The wishes were a step before. If you still have to express wishes, then you have to take a step back, but then the other person also takes a step back. That means paying attention to which phase we are in, what is required. I can't just make a wish, I also have to be prepared to do something.
[34:24]That's a help for most of us, with letting people make excuses anyway, with talking one after the other. We are not superfluous. The peace carpet has been created, simply by accepting reality. There isn't always a third party and sometimes I need a quick tool, because otherwise things become entrenched if I don't deal with them. And for children in schools, but also in educational institutions, this is simply a super good intermediate step. And pedagogically speaking, the more often you see and do this, the more you learn that it's important to talk about feelings, for example about a willingness to talk, that I can't just wish for something that the other person does, but also have to be willing to do something myself if I want to reconcile. I have one more question about what you said, because it was remarkable about the place of work and then another description, not a specific case, but a situation that is more typical, which you may have already encountered in school mediation and which can be helpful there. But first of all, I found it remarkable that you said, yes, it's completely clear that there are limits to this, I simply always have to work at school, in other words this organisation.
[35:34]And I would have thought that I would go into the school buildings to mediate as a mediator, whereas many other organisations, including administrative organisations, would rather have such mediations take place outside, sometimes not being able to. If the mediator has their own rooms, then it's always better to do it there. How is it that this is not the case in schools? I think it's because everyone is under so much stress and now there's a conflict, even if it can be resolved with mediation and the mediation is scheduled, it's still something that takes up extra time. And maybe you just have to realise that school as a place of work, neither you nor I would ever want to work in a staff room. It's often a busy, restless place where you sometimes even have to fight for your desk. In other words, most teachers are completely ambivalent, they actually want to do everything at school, but then take a lot home with them and do it there in peace and quiet because they can't work at school themselves. In other words, these places are...
[36:38]Under stress. The children also want to have a break, they want to get out of school. And yet it should still take place at school so that you can quickly leave everything behind and get away. So I'm usually in a classroom that is already empty of pupils and then I have the blackboard as a visualisation tool, for example. You always have to look for flipcharts at schools and I don't like using whiteboards for mediation. They are now also available in all classes. And then I also have to make sure, for example, that I wipe the board afterwards to ensure confidentiality and things like that. So the explanation is that the stress leaves when the mediation is arranged, it doesn't leave the school. And that's why, in order to press this onto the teacher's own presence now and also the parents then come to school, but the teacher then does it in the school rooms. The internal school training courses and also the school mediation in the teaching staff that I did all took place in the school.
[37:36]Simply out of time, to save yourself the journey, to save yourself the time that this means, yes, I would say that is the reason. So it's strange because other members of the organisation, in other organisations, always mention this stress and sometimes carry it in front of them. Yes, as if the school as a place of learning and reconciliation and of processing somehow carries and should have everything within it. Although it would probably be less stressful and also more successful to really use other spaces. Especially with you, you have your own rooms, so they would come to you. But I would actually find it difficult to imagine, even with teachers and pupils or school, that it would take place there, outside of school. I think that's a very charged place.
[38:24]Definitely, yes. One more question. And you're in Berlin, are you actually a Berliner? I'm from Berlin, but I work in Berlin and Brandenburg, also a lot in Potsdam, so I always have this comparison of the two federal states, which also create different spaces. And then the state of Brandenburg is a completely different story. So the schools in the countryside also have different social conditions, I would say. But I'm asking about Berlin and I used to live in Berlin and it was one of our tasks back then as students to get to know original Berliners, to find out, because everyone was always from somewhere else. So the newcomers, that wasn't unusual at the university of course, but there were always a lot of newcomers in other places too. It's a very intercultural city. In any case.
[39:09]This is probably also an issue in schools and that was one of the last questions, not only intercultural problems, but also meetings that lead to problems because people have different interpretations of the behaviour of others, so that conflicts are more likely there or at least more problematic when it comes to clearing up misunderstandings. And in this case, the parents also bring this interculturality with them. Often the parents themselves are bilingual marriages, who perhaps also bring up their children bilingually or even with three languages. And that all of this comes together in the school, this mixed situation. How should I put it?
[40:03]You mean, how does that play into the conflicts? Yes, and, so to speak, that the topic of interculturality, which we have as a separate field of work in mediation, independent of schools, now comes together there. And what significance does that have for you as a school mediator, if I also assume that the teaching staff.
[40:28]It is now also intercultural. That's an exciting topic. Especially as I know from the school presentation to the senior partners in Berlin that 80 to 90 per cent of the pupils have a migration background or history,
[40:49]
Intercultural conflicts in schools
[40:46]In fact, all kinds of things come together in primary schools. And I would say, and I say this as a religious scholar, that a conflict is not yet an intercultural conflict, not just because two cultures are sitting on the same chairs.
[41:01]But that's also a unit that I always do in training. And I also think it's important that the federal association has its own specialist group for this. For me, a conflict is only intercultural when a cultural imprint causes misunderstandings or strong disagreements, differences in values, where there are real upheavals in everyday life. And then I always look at the practice, because I like to work with a cultural model where it is ultimately about the practice, not about how the values are lived, is more important than how the values are spoken or thought. And if, for example, children bring jelly babies for a breakfast buffet or bring something sweet or make something else and then the teacher doesn't discuss beforehand what food rules there are in the Muslim, Jewish or wherever area, it doesn't have to be religious, it can simply be allergies and whatever else. So if this is not exchanged, then there is very quick rejection and then some people eat jelly babies with gelatine as an example and others find it really disgusting. This results in a rejection of the person instead of simply an exchange about the different flavours and food rules and what religious background they may have.
[42:26]I very much regret that. In my opinion, there should be more intercultural learning in primary schools. And a common subject, even common religious education for my sake, because it is then very quickly split up into the different religions, that is missing. And that's not always a topic in social learning, where it could also fit in.
[42:48]In other words, we have a great deal of diversity in primary schools and this also creates the opportunity for many, many, many conflicts, some of which are intercultural. So if the children say, you and us, that is to say, make this border or there are friendship bans from the parents, then the children are not allowed to play with Kurdish classmates in the yard. Of course, that's hard for the children and I think that's where the school comes in. In mediation, we can often only come up with very practical, practical solutions. But we don't change anything about the background, about the causes of these conflicts. And we have to be careful not to get too deeply involved. I also think it's incredibly difficult for the school itself to keep the space open and include this in the learning programme, because it also affects the school's self-image. What do we attach importance to, what children should learn or how they should learn it and the variety of possibilities that a school somehow decides on and is itself a cultural institution. And to unravel this on the basis of a conflict that has broken out or been dealt with seems to me to be an almost unmanageable task.
[44:12]So where you also this now that too. Exactly, and that's how it's experienced. Now you also have to deal with Palestinian-Israeli conflicts in the classroom or address hatred of Israel here as a teacher. And from my point of view, it's the school's job to deal with these conflicts in the world that are inevitably present in schools in Berlin, because the children also consume media and learn a lot from their parents and their groups of friends. Rather to say that we have a space here where this can be discussed and teachers moderate this space. Of course, they have to limit the violent spikes within the framework of the Basic Law and human rights, but many teachers are unable to open up the space first. And the fact that this exchange does not take place at school means that there is no subject where it can take place.
[45:09]Emergence natural insane many Conflicts. And I says times, the are the Court break conflicts or the Conflicts, the then in the Afternoon area hand in, because the Teacher of course, when them the halfway authoritarian lead, then Find the not instead of in School and become pushed out on the The way home
[45:27]
School conflicts and their causes
[45:26]or even in the Break times. And the Court break conflicts are also then, some are then really, really, really fierce escaped until towards to the Violence. Kerstin, there we on End the Programme are for today and I says now for today, because we believe I more Fields torn open have or addressed have as already processed, will I the times so on one next Possibility of then shift to the Deepening. But for the Moment me first thank you for the Insights, the you me and us in Mediation in Schools given have and so that also in the Conflicts, the there prevail. Many Thanks to.
[46:04]Yes, Thank you beautiful, Sascha. Perhaps can one also still Courage make, itself this Topic more to to dedicate. So I hope, that it come across, that it so many Conflicts gives, the processed become must, that it not light is, there as Mediators to get in, but we about Conflict house whole good Possibilities in the meantime have. And yes, I would like actually the Mediators and Mediators more Courage make, the also actually to try, there also in Shape from Association work or Offered to get in. As Parent comes one not so good pure, the white I also. Since is man, yes, so you as Father now. The is clear become. Yes, the would me look forward to.
[46:42]And otherwise, I am ready, still one second Round to make, because I white not, whether you the known is, but in Berlin gives it Yes the Class council in the School Act, because that, find me, very Successful successful is, him to anchor. Since have I me thought, Why not also School mediation ins School Act, Why not Student mediators on each School. And there am I straight in the process, one Initiative to start, at the to sound out, whether the goes.
[47:08]
Outlook for future initiatives
[47:08]The could perhaps again a exciting Topic be. You are Yes also Lawyer and know you from, know, like difficult so Legislative procedure are and the would be perhaps exciting for one second Round. Yes, there can we also with pleasure so a For and Against and perhaps also two, three Persons, where simple the Problem from the Perspectives here named is. With pleasure. The hold we times so to speak as Idea fixed. For the Moment but thank you I me. I will you communicate, when the Programme out is, so that you the link can. I will the Conflict house link and also the Carpet. When you concrete Links linked have want, then chic me the but simple to, equal with the Photo. Then can I the with record. Make me.
[47:52]It has me much Fun made. Many Thanks to also for yours clever Questions. The found I really very beautiful to speak. Ah, with pleasure. Yes, as well. Good Time. Good, do’s good. Thank you you. Beautiful Holidays yet. Bye bye. Thank you. Yes, Mediator Kerstin Lück, Expert for Conflicts on and in Schools, Mediations in the Context from School and also Counsellor from Schools and Politics in the Frame this whole Task definition. I have with her Many various Themes addressed, the in the Context from Conflicts and Conflict management in Schools arise and one Insight get, like the The challenges for Mediators, but also for the others, for the Parties to the conflict procure are. When you the Programme please has and the Podcast you generally appeals, then leaves also a Feedback and one Star rating and say yours Colleagues and Colleagues Notification, that here to this Themes in the Podcast. I thank you me, that you with thereby were.