INKOVEMA Podcast „Well through time“
#205 GddZ
Conflicts within works council committees
Conflict actor works council. Part 1
In conversation with lawyer Antje Burmester
Antje BurmesterLawyer, specialist in labour law, mediator (Viadrina Frankfurt); expert in collective labour law conflicts.
Small series: Works council as a conflict actor
Well through time.
The podcast about mediation, conflict coaching and organisational consulting.
Contents
Chapter:
0:12 – Introduction to conflicts in the workplace
4:48 – The role of works councils
11:21 – Challenges of works council work
18:12 – Conflicts within the committees
24:33 – Gender distribution in the works council
29:08 – The influence of young people in the works council
35:41 – Digital challenges in the boardroom
41:04 – Exempted works councils and their dynamics
48:49 – Personal conflicts and their intensity
58:04 – Conclusion and outlook on future topics
Summary of content
In this episode of the „Gut durch die Zeit“ podcast, I focus on the topic of mediation and conflict in the workplace, particularly in the context of works councils. I have invited labour law expert and mediator Antje Burmester to talk to me about the role and challenges of works council members in conflict resolution. We are launching a series of discussions in which we will examine the various lines of conflict that arise within works council bodies and between them and company management.
We shed light on how legal framework conditions, different interests and dynamics within committees can influence conflicts. Antje talks about her many years of experience in working with works councils and shows how different approaches to conflicts not only characterise the solution, but also the relationship between the works councils and the management. A central topic is the internal conflicts within the committees that arise when elected works councils represent different views and interests and how these are often carried out under the guise of harmony.
Antje reports on the challenges that arise when works councils have a heterogeneous composition in their committees and how different backgrounds, but also personal animosities, lead to conflicts. We discuss that mediation in such cases should not only be focussed on finding solutions, but must also promote understanding for the individual perspectives and experiences of the committee members. We also explore the different roles of full-time and voluntary works council members and how this affects their conflict culture.
Another focus is the importance of communication within the committees and between the works councils and the company management. We agree that understanding the legal framework and the options available to them is critical to managing conflict effectively. Antje shares her insights on how a slow and respectful approach is necessary to build trust and encourage genuine dialogue.
Our conversation concludes with a look ahead to the next episode, in which we will look in more depth at the conflicts between works council committees within an organisation. This topic is also an important challenge, as different bodies may have different approaches, which can lead to further tensions within the organisation.
Complete transcription
[0:00]And the personal Conflict, the personal Rubbing, the personal Leg placement or like this, there gives it Yes manifold Possibilities in the operational Everyday life,
[0:12]
Introduction to conflicts in the workplace
[0:11]stands absolute in the Foreground. And that, think me, also something different Approaches.
[0:18]Cordially welcome to the Podcast Good through the Time, the Podcast round at Mediation, Conflict coaching and Organisational consulting, a Podcast from INKOVEMA. I am Sascha Weigel and welcome you to one new Consequence. Today goes it at Mediation or in the Core at Conflicts on Workplace. And although want we today especially Companies in the View take, in those Works councils exist and act. And exactly there the Works Council as Field of conflict and Conflict actor in one small Series starting under the Magnifying glass take. Today with the Centre of gravity Conflicts in Works council committees, when so there selected Works councils with each other to do get, something on the Legs place want, Co-determination revitalise want and itself then natural also in Conflicts with each other and among each other go. And at this Topic and so that also these small Series competent Accompanying here in the Podcast studio to begin, have I me one Expert for Labour law and Mediation invited. I welcome here Mrs Antje Burmeester. Hello Antje. Hello Sascha.
[1:39]I have already a little so indicated, we want the one small Series build up, because we with Works councils Yes whole different Conflict management experience make can. Once within from Committees between the individual Works council members, then natural also between Committees. In larger Company units are several Committees on different Locations with different Tasks entrusted, the also in Conflicts advised can among each other or different Interests have. Keyword Site works councils, General Works Councils, Group Works Councils, watch we us everything in the Individuals to. And natural the Conflict line, the one on most likely in the View has, Works Council and Management, Works Council and HR, but also Works Council and Representative body for severely disabled persons to the Example or other Stakeholders still in Company. Before we the in the Individuals today Start and then continue, first to you, Specialist lawyer for Labour law. Mediator, but probably also still much around it. Antje, what connects you with the Topic and what makes you from as Lawyer and Mediator?
[2:56]I think, as Lawyer makes me from, that I the Labour law since many years from very different Perspectives illuminate, what itself therein shows, that I none, like so often to be found, Employer or Employees or Works council lawyer am, but I am one for all. The is for me very appealing, all various Perspectives also in the Representation of interests to supervise. In the Course the years learns one very, very much about the different Kind and Wise of the Handling with conflicts, about the different Kind and Wise to communicate in conflicts. And there is it for me one very beautiful Opportunity, the Legal, the specialised Labour law and the Mediative with each other to connect. The are already times whole many Aspects. And like succeeds it you, that you both from Employer side approachable and interesting are as Conflict counsellor, Lawyer or Mediator, as also for Works councils? Because it is Relative fast and widespread, that one but for one Page appears and that one for the other Page then like burnt is. Also when one the even not wants, but happens the but right fast. How succeeds you that?
[4:18]We live Yes all as Lawyers respectively as Mediators from Recommendations. I think, that in the Course the years a certain Trust in mine Person originated is, to say, OK, the is someone, the not in one Warehouse persists, but the is someone, the good the other Warehouse also perceives.
[4:48]
The role of works councils
[4:42]Because it goes Yes always first times at Perception, at Listen, at possibly also Translate. It are Yes partly different Language levels, in those the Counterparties, says I now times, on the road are. And I think, there runs much about Recommendation and there one me then perhaps times in one specific Situation experienced has itself or one itself enquired and says, who is the actually, like makes the that? And that then said becomes, yes, the was in Order, there have we us seen, there have we us belongs to felt. And leads the also in addition, that you Enquiries then Reject must, because you the Impression have, it stores you to very on the one Page in, where you Danger run, so to speak Yes but a Reputation or a Image.
[5:28]That you first times listen. So one must somehow so that calculate, that you also the Voice the Opposite page, the not in the Room is, perhaps with one Individual counselling then with take over and say, to consider is already also that. So the Freedom take I me quite. I hold the also for very, very important. Offside from all more own Interests, to the Motto very interesting Question, very interesting Environment, perhaps also financial interesting, then also to decide, am I there the Correct or am I it straight not, because I in one certain Discussion not sufficient Neutral be can. The can quite occur and I try there also actually very clear first times with me to deal with and then just as clear but also with the Enquirer to deal with and say, equal am I in this Case actually not the Correct. Attempts natural then also Alternatives to open, like we the all do, when we Enquiries get. And perhaps still so one last Question, before we then to the Matter come also. You are recognised as Lawyer and as Mediator. Which Significance has the with the Enquiries, the you reach, from Reasons?
[6:54]Works councils and Employer side, that you both as also are. So will you so to speak as Mediators requested and so that then even for labour law Counselling so to speak then burnt, when the once in the Direction goes or reversed, that one says, Human, we need actually one Lawyer, Find it but great, that them also somehow benevolent talk can. Yes, whereby I would it not on Benevolent talk, when we the reduce want. But the is actually whole, whole, whole predominantly the Path. So in Question, we need one Counsellor for the Labour law in the Works constitution law and the are then mostly really also Enquiries on Works Council side. Us is but possibly as Works Council already very located or but the Employer side, the behind it stands, the plays Yes here one important Role, because them also mine Costs then carry must, says, yes, the plays then already one Role, whether someone one Mediation context, one Mediation background has and the is quite from Advantage. But it is by no means like this, that the Path vice versa so frequently trodden becomes. The can I not say. So that one says, OK, we come on them to from their Mediation expertise here and take the labour law Expertise with pleasure with. No, the other way round.
[8:07]Yes, with you could I me the also good introduce, because you Yes also so to speak really also flagged out are as Lawyer and Specialist lawyer. I for mine Part take I there Yes in the Representation very back. So with me must one already more accurate look, that one still the Lawyer recognises, because I even Legal advice in the narrower Senses actually avoid and already even none Process management, but me there exclusively as Mediator present. Therefore come with me the Enquiries already rather natural on the Mediation page and there have I natural also so a little to watch, that the always from both Pages also come or at least attractive are for both Pages. I have to the Example even even none Enquiry for legal Support, but the becomes rather like this, like you it also described have.
[8:54]As Addition taken along, OK, the legal Page is not whole blind, but the is already again meaningful, because, and the makes believe I already also one Point from with the Works councils and Employer counselling, that one legal at least Experience brings along, when not therein trained, studied and ready trained is. Then would be we already so a little with the Point, what the Special constitutes this field of work. I believe, he differentiates itself but proper from classic Conflicts in the Working life, where then Mediation requested is, when there two Colleagues or two Teams with each other in the Dispute are. But as soon as a Works Council with is added and so that also Works council members, gets the again one other Pitch and one other Complexity with.
[9:45]Before we us so to speak for the Main topic Conflicts in the Works council committee warm make, perhaps before like this, what makes for you the Special from on works councils, works councils, so that them one to observing Size in Conflicts are and also like you approach. Are Works councils there what Special features or simple Persons like other Roller carrier too?
[10:10]I have also about the Course the years always more Respect won before the Labour the Works councils. Because in the Foreground stands for me always still the Basic idea of the Works constitution law, that Works council work a Volunteering is. And we See Yes also in the society as a whole Context, like Important Honorary posts are. And in this respect is first there the Perception, the or the one makes it in the Rule additional to their normal Job and provides itself so to speak to the available.
[10:49]Additional Labour and additional Conflicts also on itself to take. The necessary me always still large Respect from, because I always again see, like diverse Tasks in the Works council activity come together and like with pleasure then also times Employer social Tasks, the Yes now not so the whole high Significance have,
[11:21]
Challenges of works council work
[11:17]on the Works councils outsourced become. And the make the then even times so with. Yes, there becomes the Pensioners' meeting authoritative through the Works councils designed. Or the Christmas lottery, the make the Works councils. Since stack itself then, I am times ins Office come, there could one hardly run, because itself the Winnings the Christmas mutes in the Office stack. And something like that find I simple incredible remarkable. And the makes also what with me. And in this respect is always the Readiness, there to watch, OK, first has itself the Human in favour to the Disposition placed. And the necessary me Respect. And then is the Human in one certain Constellation come, namely in in, mostly are them Yes not alone, so in a Works council committee and have itself there presumably also sometimes unexpected Perspectives, unexpected Requirements suspended. The can I also confirm, these Requirements.
[12:05]The social Function in the Structure the Enterprise becomes but strong also from Works council side executed and even even not from Employer side or not so strong. So Anniversaries, Birthdays exactly and also Christmas festivities so to speak really with the Ear on the Base or also even the Base embodying. You say, that them also additional Conflicts on itself take, so not only with the Colleagues, the then see, that the Works Council, the selected Works Council then even from the Workbench or from the Production deducted is and to the Works council work goes, but also Conflicts within the Committees. I find it always remarkable and my Background experience with Works councils are before all Things Industrial companies, where so Industrial worker itself in this Volunteering go have and there so to speak Co-determination revitalise. And the are mostly People, the so to speak times whole pictorial spoken not in the Sitting work learnt have, but really on the Machine standing or on the Box sitting and there one large Machine travelling, so really Craft still or with the hands what creating and then in a Committee come and one Labour make should, the mainly therein exists, with each other to talk, Ideas to roll, Figures to look at and on one Table to see.
[13:30]And then also something to write down or what to present, what them even not in their Education had. The find I to like before on most amazing, what the for the Individuals means, when he says, OK, I leave me set up. And mostly is it Yes like this, itself set up leave, because one in addition requested becomes, as that one itself says, I have there Desire in addition and otherwise nothing more to do.
[13:57]I think, the is really first these very foreign World, the one enters. So it goes much at Text capture, it goes much at Forming opinions, it goes much um, To speak, so first his Opinion also express to can, his Opinion then Hearing to procure in one Multi-person body, determine, that other perhaps other Opinion are, then to go further, Why are them other Opinion, what arranged them in addition, the is already really one Challenge.
[14:29]I have both with producing Trade as also with service providers most diverse Kind to do. And it is then also fascinating determine, that these Themes but itself always very resemble, independent from the concrete professional Background. So I have some in IT service providers made, the natural in turn one whole other professional Background have. But nevertheless, there is the Read and Communicate natural none Problem. But the Together, the in the Dialogue come, from the Dialogue out then also something to develop, is then also in turn one special Challenge. Yes, the find I one interesting Point. That's right, that there Opinion formation about Social contacts runs and not simple of all things become can. Then let us but the times view, which Conflicts in Committees and so that between the Committees typically arise or frequently to be found are. When I me introduce, that you frequently rather as Lawyer requested will from the Panel, then trades it itself probably in the Dimensions not so very at Conflicts between Committee members, the you then but…
[15:45]With the Processing other Order directions join in must, right? How experience you Conflicts in Committees? The first Impetus, someone as legal Counselling to be consulted, not the Conflict within of the works council. The is, think me, almost continuous like this. It gives Exceptional constellations, the then certain Phases in the Committee work concern, to the Example the Phase to New election one Board. Then can already times clear also the Please come to Schools. The make the Lawyers also a lot, Contents to schools, but also Processes to schools. Since can one natural also some accommodate, what to the Group formation and to the Assistance there contributes. But the normal First contact is from one certain Occasion published, the itself with one Conflict but mostly with the Employer side, says I now times in the Rough and Whole, with the topic. There is based and that one then from there coming the Topic on the Reason goes and in the Frame this Topic processing faster or slower, the lasts also different Time, states, that it in the Committee different Views in addition gives.
[17:10]Possibly but even not in addition to this Topic, but it is within this Board.
[17:16]Historic different Groups gives, certain Members with each other even not can, such Things. The scrolls itself then on. Then have you so to speak the Conflict situation before you.
[17:28]So like said, the could I me think, when you as Lawyer requested will, that you then first between the Lines, when you then recorded are, you notice, oh, the is now not only a Panel, but there are also different Opinions there, the more or less clear shown become. As Mediator will I more often already exactly from Committees in favour requested, because clear is and the so to speak aware also named and marked is, here can some not with each other. We must what make.
[17:59]Sometimes is it like this, that the Employer side said has, so there must her what make, we can at all not with you work. Then gives it there really one good Contact us to the Employer side,
[18:12]
Conflicts within the committees
[18:09]the said has, the must her not alone to deliver, there must her someone get. And frequently but also, that the Participants among each other say, so alone maul we us here and we come at all not ahead. We must the clarify and the are typically Camp conflicts also. Various Lines of conflict, old and new Works Council members, when the to one Choice stop itself so to speak to the Half topped up have. And it gives still more such Lines, but me comes still this Point, that I the Impression have, Conflicts become in the Works council committee rather bashfully named or also lived out. So when it itself not belongs, meets the so also on you to. The are although sometimes rough and everything, but actually is a strong Kit to say, we belong to together, we stand actually on the same Page and it falls Company speeches rather heavy, among each other Lines of conflict clear to mark.
[19:07]Can you so that what start? Yes, not whole, think me. So it comes whole also on the Degree of escalation to. So when I in high escalated Conflicts come, then have I frequently or is Part this Escalation also the Circumstance, that the Works Council itself not agree is and then different acts, natural also different noticeable for the Employer acts. But I believe, we may one Error not commit, by we the Works Council as one uniform Unit, as a homogeneous Structure realise. The is clear not the Case. The Works Council is extremely heterogeneous and likewise heterogeneous is be Construct behaviour. The means, the Question, knows one the prefer under the Carpet, as the so to speak to the Expression to bring, the can I not General with Yes answer. The experience I different. And I experience it even straight also like this, and the makes it natural then also especially heavy.
[20:14]That in which Kind from two Constellation also always then the one Works Council member one Familiar on Employer side what is stuck, what then perhaps in the Contradiction to the Overall attitude stands. And Employer make the but also whole with pleasure, that them then the Relationship of trust to one or other with pleasure utilise and then times enquire. The famous Cigarette break while Negotiations, where then said becomes, is the really serious, is the really Yours What do you want?
[20:47]And the is but whole fast like this, that there times a Word out, where I really now in the legal Consultancy, must I whole honest say, also sometimes Effort have, to say, so now stay we on one Strand. It gives one uniform Line, it gives one uniform Communication and none leaves here somehow what out. Yes, the find I interesting, that you in favour stand, then to say, now must we times here standardised lie. So the Committees, the I know, I believe already, the is a smaller Area. I believe, Works council committees are really very multi-layered and it makes one Difference, whether one to the Example, I says now times, in Inverted commas autonomous guided Works council committee before itself has or to the Example one, the unionised co-organised is, where there a high Degree of organisation itself also in the Committee shows. And with those I already the Impression have, that the a Value on itself is, to outside towards with one Voice to speak. And that the also the Conflict management or even also Avoidance in the Committee then Yes supported, to say, so here now, we want with one Voice to outside speak and then become Conflicts smooth ironed. But the can one Difference make. In the same way believe I also Staff councils, when one times still one other Professionalism with in addition takes, that the also again different with Lines of conflict within of the Committee avoid.
[22:09]Since missing it me outspoken on Experience, what Staff councils as far as and the Dynamics in this Committees. Since have I on one Page really Points of contact, the I now also for the mediative Context utilise could. Answers I natural already, but what the mediative Context concerning, must I me there hold back, because I really the Works council work know, the Yes also partly under different legal Occupancy. It gives Yes quite Differences between the Staff Council regulations and the Works council regulations. And in this respect is the rather, it is mine Home.
[22:44]I can but already also confirm, that each stronger the Trade union influence there is, each stronger is also one certain Kind from Guidance of the Board, the Certainly also in addition leads, that the Impression, the you describe, Namely, we are one and the stay we also promoted. The can I already confirm. Yes, so take we to the Example the Line from different Lists with the List election. The gives it much more often with Operated, where the Degree of organisation low is or where the Committee itself aware also from trade union Influence keeps away. Experience I the much more frequently, that there different Lists also are, as in Operated, the one strong Degree of organisation have and then also ultimately only one List, namely the Trade union list, also the Committee authoritative influenced. And there experience me, or I white not, whether the sociological whole load-bearing is, that many Lines of conflict already sorted out become. Then is a strong Share from Production people in the Committee and it missing completely the Administration as Workforce, what always to Conflicts lead would. Then is so to speak the Works Council as Committee occupied. Since are then even the People.
[24:08]Production representative inside. Or also Men and Women is a whole strong Part or Conflict line, the one draw could and frequently in Committees simple a Men's club realisation comes. Yes, I mine, the Works constitution law has Yes tried, to counteract this. It gives Yes actually really still one whole Series from Provisions, the with the Choice ensure should, that the Gender distribution
[24:33]
Gender distribution in the works council
[24:31]in the Works Council about the Workforce corresponds. Yes, but I know the quite in Production companies also, that the already in, like shall I say, a Endeavour is, in such Contexts Women in addition to motivate, itself for Works council work set up to leave. And outspoken have I also there very Different experienced, like then the actual inner Co-operation takes place. Protocol makes the Mrs.
[24:59]The Protocol makes the Mrs, the Ordering bread rolls for the, the we in the Connection make, makes also the Mrs. Whether the sufficient Sticky label there are, makes the Mrs. Good, we are already also there of course, I make the now already very long and we are there God be Thanks to also one certain Change subjected. It gives already also very self-confident Representatives, but it is already in the Context, where we now straight come from, so in the classic Industry resp. Production line, so that there the Allocation of tasks one a little in the 60s, 70s years throws back, when one the so considered. Perhaps even so wide go, the Regulation, that the Gender ratio itself reflect should, when it anyway a more male-dominated Operation is.
[25:50]Then leads the Regulation also in addition, so at least Observation or Thesis also perhaps only, that Women even not in the Works Council itself Select leave, thereby underrepresented are, because them anyway not more as 10 or 20 Per cent map can. And it makes simple none Fun, none Joy with 10 per cent. So one is one under eleven Persons, then stay I prefer away. So then leads so to speak the Regulation strangely enough in addition, that it actually a Exclusion is.
[26:24]We have but more Exclusion factors. So Works council activity shall Yes focussed on within the Working hours take place. In the Just a moment, where Women, we have Yes always still one by far higher Part-time quota with Women as with Men, Women in Part-time itself in the Works councils Select leave, have them always the Problem, that natural also events outside their regular Working hours take place. Then run them in a extra Care problem.
[26:49]Jobs You itself before, it is a Operation, where the Management only from 16 Clock Time has. Then is it natural also really very, very heavy. And the Women, the the then pull through, there is already sometimes to observe, that them it one Election period create, but the next Election period then also not more compete. So it are already also factual Obstacles, also when the Law the tries cushioning, also when it Case law in addition gives, what the Employer then to remunerate has. The is everything legal actually on the right Rail as far as possible, would I now times say, but actually relieved it natural not on the Position. Also when we 2024 have, always still rather on the female as on the female, so on the Mother as on the Father rail. The becomes already more. Yes, the would be one Conflict line, the even already before with the Choice and with the Decision of the Standing up practical already levelled becomes and one but frequently rather Male-dominated until pure Men's works council in classic Industrial companies finds. One whole similar with just as heavy Effects, find me, is the Line of conflict between Young and Old.
[27:57]Absolutely. That young People not in the Works Council Go want, but also not come would or could, itself when them wanted, because there simple but a Closed-Shop is, the…
[28:13]Well maintained becomes with the lack of Commitment the young People, itself clarified becomes, well, so and then sit there but rather the Experienced on Table and regret, that the Boys not join in want and on the other Page but also even not serene become. Yes, experience I very different. I experience frequently already but also the Discussion, that the as large Deficiency perceived becomes. We have one demographic Change natural also with the works councils. It gives Yes very interesting Surveys in addition, that also the baby boomers Vintages itself in the Works councils especially strong find again. The means, it becomes one natural Change now in the next, so 2026 becomes already one exciting Choice become on the Position, because the Boomer on the Place then already more or less in Pension, on the Path in the Pension and so more are.
[29:08]
The influence of young people on the works council
[29:05]The must now all for Succession constellations in the Operated provide. The is already very exciting. And the is but a Conflict issue. So the have I at least the last years experienced, that one there not sufficient young People gets, becomes very conflictual between the available, experienced Works councils negotiated. Hey, you, the this Podcast listens, forget not, him to Rate and one Feedback to give. Many Thanks to and now goes it continue.
[29:38]Sure, then becomes natural also with pleasure times various outside of the Works Council lying Factors, the in Inverted commas the Guilt, the Responsibility in addition pushed. Yes, the know I also. It is but Unfortunately also like this, that the Youth and Trainee representatives, the Yes actually the natural Young talent produce should, that the in the Operated from Employer side, but also from Works council page not always especially good treated become. The is a little stepmotherly. So I have the then times in the Group Works Council experienced, where there natural also a Group Youth and Trainee representative belongs. The was for years not there and then suddenly was he there and the provided also still Questions. The was whole great, but the Dynamics is somehow not there. Since is but so on the one hand the Funding problem from both Operating parties, on the other hand but also whole clear the Problem committed. The have I multiple times experienced. Committed Youth and Trainee representative develop itself in the Frame their professional life more and one changes today the Employer much more often as earlier. Man remains not in the Operation for 40 years and the notices one natural on the Place also. So there would be we also still times Certainly with the Conflicts with Works council committees on it to speak come, Youth training organisations, also the Group Works Councils and like this. What we there here now already with the Topic See can.
[31:03]So straight with the Boys, that the Observation Certainly wide carries, that to few Boy in the Works council work so far come are and also, that the Works councils as Deficiency experience.
[31:18]And it not from alone comes and already even not without Conflicts and without Stress, that itself the changes. So I have some Conflicts before Eyes in Committees, where but also Younger thereby were. Still not Boy, but Younger. And it then really at Working methods goes, at also Claims. So that, what we also from personal Page here know, that the young People now not first two Election periods go along and observe and then perhaps in the third Election period times ask, whether them perhaps the Protocol create may or perhaps even also in one Committee co-operate may, but that them say, yes, I am now elected, I wants now also here take part. And that the as outrageous experienced becomes or as to brash, to inexperienced, Greenhorn-like then declared becomes, that one there then now thinks, OK, one must itself the World change, only because now two young People Works councils become are. So experience the frequently more experienced Works councils, the exactly the say. So I have one Election period me the view may, then the second Election period was I times requested and since the third am I perhaps here in one Committee active and the Eternities so to speak spend likely, then also to co-operate.
[32:40]I can it from mine Experience not whole so confirm, what this Do not start as far as we are concerned. I would but a other hinder, the what us also from other Context very good familiar is, again to be added, that we Yes also in the Works council work with technological Change to do have and that the young Generation one whole other Approach on Technologies, Psychologies, the large Word the AI.
[33:08]To the Question informational Right to self-determination has as the older Generation. Since come natural then also again whole, whole interesting Fractions to Days, with those become we us Certainly in the next years also reinforced employ must. But it would be already beautiful, when Your Experience relativised become would through committed Works councils each Age, the, as soon as the Commitment, the Will to the Commitment there is, then the People also let go, because actually needs the Works Council always to the Example very, very good and knowledgeable People in the Specialised committees for IT. Since becomes Yes whole a lot, there happens Yes whole a lot. So one can the different then read, so young and old or also digital affine and digital sceptical, before all Things with the Focus topic from Data protection, Employee monitoring and prefer not, before we this Price to pay would have, what itself then in Introduction from certain Tools expresses, Where one always still say can, well, we as Works Council have stop one rather verifying Perspective on Tools, the ours Employees get should. What white me, Microsoft 365 Degree or what also always.
[34:27]Digital Personnel file. Digital Personnel file. And on the other Page but also, and there experience I it also direct as Conflict in the Panel, like work us? Yes. And that there simple young People, I says it whole simple, piled up are. The want itself, what white me, the Guide folder on Company agreements not from the Chairman's office get. The expect, that the on the Cloud lies and that the simple the Mode of operation of the Togetherness, there lie Worlds in between. Yes, there give I You right. The can highly conflictual negotiated become, when at all young People in the Committee are, so on the List came or itself set up have, elected were and then also the Courage find, to second against the eleven other or still stronger then to say, so here must we what change. What always goes hand in hand with Interrupt from Routines, not know, what there happens behind it, behind the Screen and then always whole fast is the Data protection law also secured.
[35:33]We have a Example, Representation from Works council work in social Media also. So also only the Public image from Works council work.
[35:41]
Digital challenges in the boardroom
[35:42]A Giant manko. Yes, the would be very beautiful, when the more liquid function would. And it needs but People, the so that Bypass can. And there come we but again still to one other Topic, namely Volunteering. The costs really Time.
[36:00]The blieft him Yes not from the Spring, but there must itself really someone with deal with. He must on Ear the Time, on Ear of the Operation be. He must it clever make, at People to reach. So the is really Yes not times even so posted. And already even not with Strategy and strategic Plan behind it, but also the Individual post. Exactly. And then leads it but already in addition, and the find I also is a strong Aspect with the Question Conflict management in the Works Council committee, much becomes not carried out as Conflict. The Price would be practical to high, there says the individual Person but prefer, then leave I it. When he not wanted, then make I it stop not. And then is it so one self-fulfilling Prophecy.
[36:50]When I requested will from one Works Council, we have internal Problems, we have Difficulties, we are there fissured therein and it are to the Example Digital topics. And then is one the strongest Interventions, the in Relation to set, that the already whole much worth is, that them the out. The is so not the Problem, that them this Conflict so problematic experience, but the is good, necessary. Much stronger is so to speak the Waiver on Escalation, the Turn away, then remains it stop at the Old people, then make I there even not with or then make we it even like this, wait like so far, is much higher, the Share is much larger. The find I is sometimes underlit, when one itself so Conflict management looks at from Works council committees, that them then rather stop regret, it gives none committed People and then not recognise, but the could it give, but it would to Stunning tradition be, when one the join in could. It would be also simply exhausting. Or simple expressed exhausting. So it would be exhausting. I believe, we must really with Company speeches also always the Question place to Resources.
[38:08]Temporal Resources, Power resources, financial Resources. When You good Works council work make want, is it Your prominent Task, itself Your Resources clear to become and to say, where grab we now to, where set we Priorities. The right. And the is already…
[38:28]Also very exciting and there stay natural such Topics, the then exhausting are, also whole with pleasure times on the Route. The are also Themes possibly, the are not immediately visible. So when we the Resource topic have, must we at the same time from mine View also always still the more Topic raise. A Works Council is a selected Committee and we have one Election period regularly from four years. The means, we can also times so a little watch, where are we because now straight in the electoral period, are we rather on Beginning. Then come also such Moderations rather times to the Train, there are the Committees also more open. The is this, like itself Organisations even also moulds, the have we with Works council committees then also. And against End the Election period wants natural each Works Council, it be because now something Large in between comes, but wants natural also something show can and say can, the have we achieved. And whether it then always so something for the Employees then frequently Self-evident is, we become not with our Activity monitored, the is Yes frequently now even not more so in the Focus of the Large the employees.
[39:36]Then becomes the even also perhaps not attractive. Yes, so the right. The has again one whole, whole explainable Component, that there Resources not available are, what simple as Volunteering is and that it also something Company policy with itself brings. We are a Electoral office and we must what show and the is sometimes what whole Simple, what presentable is and not, with which we still not exactly know, what there back comes out, when we it make would. Exactly. Yes, the find I again one Point, the I so not in the View had and have in the process, yes.
[40:19]Perhaps watch we us times the Committees to, where the with the Resources a little more formal divided is. When we times the larger Committees take, where Exempted are and the also already in Committee size. So from nine Persons gives it one Claim on one exempted Person, the may then so exclusively Works council work make, has not more the contractual committed Job to complete and more Committee members 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, I had times with 27 to do, are the then also fast times 5 until 7. Sometimes are then also the Company, the still one in addition takes,
[41:04]
Exempted works councils and their dynamics
[41:02]are it eight, nine Exempted persons. And then has one suddenly also one Handball team on Exempted persons, the then Full-time Works council work make.
[41:14]The are always very good trained, the are very political orientated, know so, like Committee work works, like Majorities to organise are, strategic also in the View on more Election periods aligned, because man.
[41:31]I white not, whether aware or unconsciously, but one can already more calculate as only until to the next Choice in such large Committees. Since white one at least, when I now not somehow Silver cutlery steal, then will I also again as Works Council elected. And then is it also probably, that I furthermore exempted am. I white not, covers the itself with yours Experience with exempted? Whole clear. The are frequently longstanding Works Council members. But the are frequently Works Council members, the whole different Functions in the Committee or in the Committee landscape take over, where then also the Exemption actually what urgent necessary is. When You so at the same time in the local Panel, but also in the Corporate body and in the Group committee sit, then are You already whole good to do. When You itself then introduce, You make conductive one Committee, to the Example now the Specialised committee for IT, the we even already named have. The are already, say I times, large Areas of responsibility and the are frequently People, the the about two.
[42:31]Three, four Election periods beyond then actually hold and so that natural also a enormous Knowledge acquire, a enormous Experiential knowledge. When You sometimes the in the third Election period exempted Works Council member the Management against each other, then have You also on the Management page at least five Change, but the Works Council or the Works councils in Israel always still on Board and can then the New tell, the had we but already with the not created or what also always. You can it Yes with pleasure times try.
[43:04]Such Dialogues yield itself then Yes also. But Fact is in fact, that the in the exempted Landscape also from mine Visibility, we it with players to do have, the already long thereby are and accordingly experience. A Colleague said the always, the is the social Conscience on Location. When one the Find wants, then can one to the Works Council go. There are the, the about longer Time the Operation from Organisational perspective seen have. Yes, it is, one great Statement, no? Then needs he itself around Conscience not to care and then fits everything pure.
[43:38]This Effect has it also in turn, that other relieved are. I mine, there come we again to the Conflicts with Works council committees. Since gives it HR, the itself for the Employees feel and the Works councils. And that the in Conflicts frequently are, is not unusual. The has Yes quite also a pair family psychology Parallels, when one says, there is Yes Mum and the Dad, the itself at the Education the Children argue. But the watch we us again later to. When I on the Exempt group think and on Conflict management or in mine Case also then special Mediation requests, is the not unusual? So have I several, the say, we must as Exempted function, we must ours Job good make and our Committee demands the from us. And therefore need we now someone external, the us helps, ours Conflicts good to process.
[44:29]And the has so one constellation, that so the Committee said has, yes, External get, we watch us the not longer with on and so that also, we Go not more more in the individual Coalitions, the us offered become. So place we us behind the Chairman or place we us behind the Exempted or the Exempted persons, but her should the make. And then finds within this Committee of Independent Employees then Clarification work instead, Mediation work. Would you say from the Experience or from the Assumption here, the is other Working in mediative, moderative Settings as with.
[45:08]works councils, the not exempted are. I wants even not say simple Works councils, but the now not in the exempted Mode act. Which Conflict situation mean you? The Conflict situation within from Exempted persons, within one large operation? Exactly, under Exempted persons. That there Mediation work whole other Lines of conflict in the View have must and also Handling with Conflicts as in one Panel, with the exclusively so to speak honorary simple Works councils act. What I me so auditions from mine Field of experience is, the is there, like so often in the Life, more often less at Special topics, but at personal Themes goes and that one accordingly then also, each more personal the Conflict is, also accordingly within the Moderation or also the Mediation accordingly Targeted there go in must. So the Matter steps always more or is always more in the Background and the personal Conflict, the personal Rubbing.
[46:23]The personal itself from the Leg place or like this, there gives it Yes manifold Possibilities in the operational Everyday life, stands absolute in the Foreground. And the think I also, that it different Approaches required. That it personal Animosities much stronger escalate can. It becomes also more personal connoted. So the can not with each other. And nevertheless, on the other Page are them more professional, because them the even as Exempted make and can stronger so to speak from the Chairman, from the other also to the Raison brought become or again on Line brought become, And that so to speak the common Strategy now more important is and one should itself pull yourself together. So one Request from internal works council Page, when now so to the Example the three Exempted to the other two Exempted say, hey, so can her not with each other avoid, finds a Mode, that her halfway work together can. We come as Group at all not ahead. Man catches much stronger as in one Panel, where now none Exempted there are. Since find me, are rather so Difficulties, really to the Example one common Date to find, because the all still their Job have or their Family and Works Council really as Volunteering categorise. And the has not Priority.
[47:48]Yes, there is natural this Criterion of reason, what you now very strong in the Foreground ask, is Objective absolute right. I am now times heretical and say, the personal Conflict can but all the more deeper be and the Trenches, the there stopped been are, we languages about long-standing Commitment, the is Yes also about long years then frequently grown.
[48:10]Smells then also for one special Depth respectively Intensity of the conflict. And then so to speak this Ordo en Mufti to say, tears you times together, the would from mine View not are sufficient. And it corresponds to also not mine Experience, but I have there already really intensive Conflict resolution work experienced, the also to different Successes led has. The must one also whole clear say, it has not always works. Also when one itself with his whole Power now there thrown in has,
[48:49]
Personal conflicts and their intensity
[48:44]so to speak as external Person, the there mediate shall or Moderate shall. The would I now long not for me in Claim take want, that the then also works.
[48:56]Yes, in fact. So from Success wants I there even not Large speak, but I had now so a Committee before Eyes, the I longer Time accompanied have. And there came several this Lines of conflict to the Carry. So to the one this Generation change, the in the last years or last Decade so took place, that then a very longstanding Chairman cede wants, thereof also ten years with pleasure spoken has or five years. The not made has and then such Tendencies from the next Generation must him set down, what then as Betrayal and as unsightly also experienced becomes. Long Time goes also several, where the Chairperson not more the Most Voices get has, but young People have more Voices, what very wreathing experienced was on the personal Level.
[49:48]But for the Overall picture, the Constellation retained was, he or them was allowed Chairwoman stay and the with the several Voices was still in the second Series to the Teach-in held, but then even but also in Conflicts or conflictual dissolved was. And especially the one Works Council, where two young People, young Man, young Mrs, pulled up was on the Guidance of the very large Committee and so that also one very high Area of responsibility. And where it not only with Conflicts then to the Chairperson came, but then also, although long Time on same Level, on End but somehow decided become had to, who goes now in the Guidance and then itself also these both Persons arg with each other injured have.
[50:38]And there was the on the one Page very personally and professional in the respect, that the Works council work a own Profession was, with all Complexity. And it was long none Volunteering more, but the was so to speak the professional View. Become I Chairman of the Committee and am the then still mine 15 years or 10 years or not? And the pulled itself through. And the was natural one whole other Mediation work, as when I the in one Panel of seven have, the itself on Beginning one Election period argue or not know, like them itself organise. And there interested me so to speak, like you the experience, when you with Exempted so with Professional works councils work or with works councils, with the simple already one Appreciation alone in favour, that them Works councils are.
[51:33]Attached is and itself this Volunteering do. It are on each Case very difficult Conflict constellations, straight in the, the you now last described have, that then two in the Reason taken their The future about the Works council activity built up have and thereby stop ins Enclosure with each other come are. I do me a little heavy, the as Perspective actually to recognise, because where are us? So we are in one Democratic elected Panel, what Employee representation means and where the or the one, the there to one Choice the Chair for itself Win would like, even also the then elected Members for itself Win must. So I am there very reserved, what so Perspective, Career planning about Works council activity as far as we are concerned. But Yes also understandable, similar like with politicians. Man can not from now on equal only times say, I manage now the 21-person committee in the Group, but I must me on it prepare. I would be also a Piece wide observed before, also filtered out or selected.
[52:54]To at all in Question to come. And then comes so to speak so a more democratic Act in addition. Yes, you will it or you will it not. But it has much with Planning and also Decision to do. I decide me to this Career path. It has what for one Career also. Yes, there give I you right. The is Yes also now open spoken. Can it yes. We have now Yes about the Labour the Conflict resolution spoken. Yes, but it is one internal Conflict resolution, but it can Yes also one really very attractive Activity be, when one straight in the exempted Range in larger Contexts Works council work makes, then makes one also Company policy in the Matters, the the Works Constitution Act me in any case assigns and also always still a Pieces about it beyond. The make we us now before.
[53:47]The Works Constitution Act is although the Regulatory basis, but has, what Politics concerning, clear none Limitation and becomes Yes frequently then also still times a little to above, to below and to the Page extended, what Yes from the operational Everyday life Yes quite also benefit can. Yes, sometimes find I it difficult, but… Probably with Conflicts with Works council committees, the then suddenly one Power position also claim can or the one also meanwhile in the Works constitution law so not simple in the Paragraphs finds, but the itself simple factual then results, because it even also one powerful Position then is in large. But internal is the even also a Conflict issue. Yes, the is on each Case also a Conflict issue. So there have we it also with healthier more human Vanity frequently to do. The may one also not forgotten, there are we all People. Yes, and the meet we natural also in the Committees to. But this Focus Career planning, Work of the works council, like said, a small Question mark make I there. But what the Activity and the Task, the Context the Task concerning, find I the quite also attractive and accordingly Legitimate to say, I ready me on it good before.
[54:59]Yes, I find the suitable. So this Question mark, one can from it none official Programme make as Company. The is none Organisational topic, but it is a personal Topic. And one notices it but, also in Mediation notices one it, which Commitment stuck there inside. Also in the one Topic was it also, it would be catastrophic, to years of the Structure for the Chairpersons, Deputy and Chairman was the been, when the now breaks away, when the the not makes. So whole normal Personnel policy. Exactly. Succession, exactly.
[55:34]In the Follow-up discussion have we also Corporate management page Yes also in various Constellations. The have we natural also with such Positions. Sure, the are factual Aspects, the would like I also not talk down or in Question place in the process. It gives these, also from the Committee members to say, hey, the is now but a more democratic Act and there gives it none Payment for services for the years before that. The is none Wage, that you Chairman will. The is a exciting Topic straight. My Picture before Eyes is always, that when one a really also long served Works Council member said, the was now a niner Panel, said, Mrs Bummister, I am one from nine. And the found I total cool to say, I have the same Voice, when it at the Voting about a certain Topic goes, like all mine Works Council colleagues and Colleagues also. The is first the Base on the Position, that it natural then Differences gives in the actual Sound, in the actual Commitment. Take we also times the beautiful Word Lifeblood. The is but also whole clear.
[56:38]May not missing, when it at Works councils goes. So People in more different Dimensions in favour burn and itself use, there make we us nothing before. And you have the Topic Wages addressed, the is natural super exciting. We have straight one New regulation for the Works council remuneration and it is on only more hidden Place obviously intended, that the Knowledge, the a Works Council member in the Frame his Works council activity gains, then with his Remuneration assessment, he shall Yes equalled and equalised heating become, become with the active operate Colleagues and Colleagues.
[57:14]Only one right subordinate Role plays. And there question I natural now from the Practice coming, when I me the Professionals look at, we have even about the Exempted spoken, but in each Committee have we People, the the at least semi-professional approach. Then question I me, the is a such Asset, at it stupid and New German to express, what there gained becomes, that the then with the personal Remuneration development only under furthermore under race law now run shall. Stop I for questionable. Find I too bad, Why one the not more in the Foreground plays. Thereby would one a Office also again more attractive make can. Yes, understand. Antje. We have some, probably not all Lines of conflict, the in Works council committees
[58:04]
Conclusion and outlook for future topics
[58:02]arise, addressed. Will now but so to speak to the Conclusion this Kick-off meeting again so a Overview or Conclusion for us Conflict counsellor, whether now legal connoted or moderative, mediative. Whereupon comes it to, when we Conflicts in the Committee edit? Have you there so in, two Points, where you say, that… On each Case. So I think, it comes first times on it to, I have one Contact person, the the Contact us produces, like the always is, whether now Counselling or Mediation.
[58:42]This Contact person is first times a Messenger, not more. He stands as member one Organisation, the is now times the Works Council, on which Level also always, because he on the road is and he may never or them may never insulated considered become, but I am always held and it is also one large Recommendation, never only with the Messenger, so with the, frequently is it Yes the or the Chairwoman to speak, but itself always one Overview to provide, where stands the Panel, like is the Committee composed, also exactly to ask, like long are the People in the process, what motivated them, what frustrated them, so that is, I must really in Contact us come And whole frequently is it at least in the legal Perception from Works council committees, also from the Works council advisor like this.
[59:29]Since missing a little the Time, there missing a little the, so I wants not say, the Sensitivity, the is already there, because the notices one simple very fast. But one becomes frequently Yes in the urgent Case called and then shall one Relative fast the legal Solution deliver and one Path deliver to the Motto, make we it first out of court or lead we equal a Closure procedure in. But in the Moment itself the Time to take and to say, OK, like ticks the Committee? Who is here Member? Who has so to speak which Interests? The appears me whole important. So really more accurate to look, not with the outside visible Level the first Contact persons itself to be satisfied. The is the one. And the other is, I come Yes now really from the legal Rail. I white, that one the different See can, but I must them already also under works constitution law view.
[1:00:19]I can not, when a Works Council me says, I wants the and the reach and the is internal disputed, say, yes, yes, none Problem, the is in favour exist with Right of determination. The is simple effective not like this. Yes, there gives it also many Misunderstandings. Also when them the fight for, them would it never reach. So that is, the View, the Awareness for that, what goes and what straight not goes, the must already also there be. And the is already... On Works Council side. Yes, on Works Council side. And I am in favour there to sensitise, is but clear. The find I again one important Point, that even Conflicts in the Works Council also times so from committed and in need of harmony differentiated carried in become or carried out become from the, what now operational goes. So whether one now these Software introduces or whether one these Labour change carries out. And some say, the make we not. Since says man, no, there want we more. And you say, there must we also under works constitution law this Conflict under the Works councils view, because perhaps here a Field opened becomes, where one itself as Committee injure and maul can. But it comes nothing thereby rum with View Direction Employer, because the there simple even not works. Realised becomes at the moment. It gives Goals, the are plain not reachable. You are desirable, but them are not reachable. And the must one clear to pronounce.
[1:01:42]Suitable Closing words and also beautiful Transition then to one second Part, the we then in the new Year probably coming soon then record. Then watch we us then on Conflicts between Works council committees one operation, because the is also again a whole special Field. Anja, many Thanks to for the Kick-off. Very with pleasure, Sascha. Good Time and until soon. Ciao. Many Thanks to, that You until here listened to have, that You with thereby were here on Podcast Good through the Time. When You this Podcast like and him listen, then subscribe You him on each Case. Then miss You none Consequence and say You also with pleasure Your Friends and Colleagues Notification, that it this Podcast gives. Until there. For the Moment best Greetings and one good Time. Until to the next Times. Comes good through the Time. give that. I am Sascha Weigel, yours Host from INKOVEMA, the Institute for Conflict and Negotiation management in Leipzig and Partner for professional Mediation and coaching training and also Organisational consulting training.
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